4/3/25 ESPN First Take Topic: Is Jokic a top-20 NBA GOAT?

[Y2K]

Thoughts?

[Robceltsfan]

Are there any other 3-time NBA MVPs with a Finals MVP that are outside the top 20? Maybe Moses Malone is on that borderline....but Jokic is clearly an order of magnitude better than Malone.

He definitely deserves top 20 billing. Possibly top 15.

[lettherebehouse]

Easily above both Russell & Wilt on the NBA all time’s heirarchy, which shouldn’t even be up for debate.

[LNS]

Easily above both Russell & Wilt on the NBA all time’s heirarchy, which shouldn’t even be up for debate.

Agreed

[Alex_Murphy]

in all seriousness he’s better than magic johnson basically doing his job but better and from the center position. stats speak for themselves

[thedangerouskitchen]

I'd say he's borderline Top 20 at best right now... 22/11/7 on 56%/36%/82% for his career in the Modern Era is very solid, however it's nothing out-of-this-world impressive considering a) everyone puts up "stats" today because b) it's never been easier to Score/Rebound/Facilitate.

A lack of Defensive prowess and (especially) a lack of Winning is what really keeps Joker from being mentioned among the elite OF elites all-time.

[_Vcsgrizzfan_]

How many guys have 3 MVPs and he's carried a very lackluster cast to a title and high 50 win finishes. He's easily around 12-15 at worst. There is no universe where guys like the two Malones, Barkley etc.. that are considered near that level are on par with Jokic. Easily the best offensive C in the history of the game, grossly underestimated defensively with one the highest basketball IQs of anyone who has ever lived. Personally, I would have him much higher than most in the same way I have KG higher than most, because they both were cursed by brutal front offices (well KG in his Minny days).

[thedangerouskitchen]

Someone get grizz a towel so he can clean up the Joker jizz he's spraying all over his screen (lolol), making up every excuse under the sun for the guy's lack of Winning and mediocre (at best) Defense.

[Bush4Ever.]

Joker won a title with no all star and his teams are always contenders with no all stars

Jordan couldn’t even generate a winning regular season when he was in the position jokic is in now

And lonely boomers call Jordan the ultimate winner and Jokic the ultimate loser. Complete derangement from lonely delusional “men”

[Uncontroversial]

Yeah. Giannis is in the top 20 too, behind Joker though.

[Uncontroversial]

Curry is top 6.

The most difficult to rank is Kawhi

Durant is tricky too

[Robceltsfan]

Joker won a title with no all star and his teams are always contenders with no all stars

Jordan couldn’t even generate a winning regular season when he was in the position jokic is in now

And lonely boomers call Jordan the ultimate winner and Jokic the ultimate loser. Complete derangement from lonely delusional “men”

If you had to rank Scottie Pippen against his peers in the 90's, what would you rank him? Maybe 5th or 6th behind the likes of Jordan, Malone, Barkley and Hakeem?

Could you imagine Jokic playing alongside the 5th or 6th best player today for an entire decade? We're talking about him getting someone like Tatum, or Brunson, or Ant, or Steph. Instead, his #2 player is a guy with ZERO All-NBA's, ZERO all-star appearances, and hasn't played more than 65 games in a season since before COVID.

How much help did Jordan need?!?!?

[thedangerouskitchen]

Joker won a title with no all star and his teams are always contenders with no all stars

Jordan couldn’t even generate a winning regular season when he was in the position jokic is in now

And lonely boomers call Jordan the ultimate winner and Jokic the ultimate loser. Complete derangement from lonely delusional “men”

You're trying too hard (again) bushy.

I never called Joker a loser but the fact remains he's got more than enough talent around him to win a Championship, as he proved when he won in 2023 with the same "core" as he has today... except today Joker AND that core are better than they were in 2023.

Also, remind me who was the all-star Jordan played alongside when he won his first Championship in 91?

I'll wait...

[thedangerouskitchen]

Joker won a title with no all star and his teams are always contenders with no all stars

Jordan couldn’t even generate a winning regular season when he was in the position jokic is in now

And lonely boomers call Jordan the ultimate winner and Jokic the ultimate loser. Complete derangement from lonely delusional “men”

If you had to rank Scottie Pippen against his peers in the 90's, what would you rank him? Maybe 5th or 6th behind the likes of Jordan, Malone, Barkley and Hakeem?

Could you imagine Jokic playing alongside the 5th or 6th best player today for an entire decade? We're talking about him getting someone like Tatum, or Brunson, or Ant, or Steph. Instead, his #2 player is a guy with ZERO All-NBA's, ZERO all-star appearances, and hasn't played more than 65 games in a season since before COVID.

How much help did Jordan need?!?!?

Let's imagine how many Championships Jordan and Joker would win if they played alongside 31 all-star/HOF teammates throughout their careers like LeBron?

[Shill Jackson]

I’d prefer to wait until he’s closer to done, but the answer is yes.
And Leoss’ take is ridiculous

[Y2K]

Joker's last 7 seasons are a career worth of accolades for some individuals in the HoF who are regarded as NBA greats/legends. Right now he's in year 10 with no signs of showing down.

I personally would put him and my top 20. But I do understand if the "lack of longevity" is an issue that makes ppl pause.

As much as I loved Larry Bird, he only played 10 full seasons. Just something to consider.

[Da Stars.]

Joker won a title with no all star and his teams are always contenders with no all stars

Jordan couldn’t even generate a winning regular season when he was in the position jokic is in now

And lonely boomers call Jordan the ultimate winner and Jokic the ultimate loser. Complete derangement from lonely delusional “men”

By all means lets talk about mediocre.

Timberwolves finished 7 games under projected finish.
Suns finished 7 games under projected finish.
Lakers the best of the bunch finished 2 games under.

The finals. The Miami Heat the 7th seed in the east, finished 5 games under projected finish.

Denver played a Keg of Natty light. Had a case of unsalted tomato juice. And had to poor both into a hot mug. Da Stars aint touching that shit. To win the title.

[Alex_Murphy]

I’d prefer to wait until he’s closer to done, but the answer is yes.
And Leoss’ take is ridiculous

AIDS:

Magic johnson - 1
Jokic - 0

[Deez]

Joker won a title with no all star and his teams are always contenders with no all stars

Jordan couldn’t even generate a winning regular season when he was in the position jokic is in now

And lonely boomers call Jordan the ultimate winner and Jokic the ultimate loser. Complete derangement from lonely delusional “men”

Jokers team around him
Is head and shoulders better than what Jordan had around him in the 80’s. Pretty stupid and typical post by you though.